If you've ever experienced skin inflammation, minor injuries, or swelling, you've likely heard about witch hazel as a natural remedy. But does Witch Hazel Extract Powder really reduce swelling, or is it just another wellness trend? This comprehensive guide explores the science behind witch hazel powder and its anti-inflammatory properties, helping you understand how this botanical ingredient can benefit your health.
Witch hazel (Hamamelis virginiana) has been used for centuries in traditional medicine, and modern scientific research continues to validate many of its therapeutic properties. Whether you're dealing with skin irritation, minor wounds, or inflammatory conditions, understanding how witch hazel works can help you make informed decisions about incorporating this natural ingredient into your wellness routine.
What Is Witch Hazel?
Botanical Background
Witch hazel is a flowering shrub native to North America, particularly abundant in the eastern United States and Canada. The plant has been used medicinally by Native Americans for generations, who recognized its powerful healing properties long before modern science could explain them. Traditional uses included treating skin inflammation, wounds, and various inflammatory conditions .
Witch Hazel Extract Powder vs. Liquid Extract
While most people are familiar with witch hazel in liquid form, witch hazel powder offers unique advantages for both manufacturers and consumers:
Witch Hazel Powder Benefits:
* Longer shelf life and stability
* Easier transportation and storage
* Concentrated active compounds
* Versatile application in various formulations
* No alcohol content (unlike many liquid preparations)
* Ideal for dietary supplements and topical preparations
The powder form is created by extracting the active compounds from witch hazel bark and leaves, then concentrating and drying them into a fine powder that retains the plant's beneficial properties.
The Science Behind Witch Hazel's Anti-Swelling Properties
Active Compounds in Witch Hazel
The therapeutic effects of Witch Hazel Extract Powder stem from its rich phytochemical composition. Understanding these compounds helps explain why witch hazel is so effective at reducing swelling:
Key Active Ingredients:
1. Tannins (8-12% content) Tannins are polyphenolic compounds that provide witch hazel's characteristic astringent properties. These compounds bind to proteins in the skin and mucous membranes, creating a protective barrier that reduces inflammation and swelling.
2. Gallic Acid A powerful antioxidant and anti-inflammatory compound that helps neutralize free radicals and reduce inflammatory responses in tissues.
3. Catechins These flavonoid compounds possess strong antioxidant properties and contribute to witch hazel's ability to protect cells from oxidative stress.
4. Proanthocyanidins Complex tannin structures that enhance vascular integrity and reduce capillary permeability, which directly impacts swelling reduction.
5. Essential Oils Small amounts of volatile oils contribute to witch hazel's soothing properties and antimicrobial effects.
How Witch Hazel Reduces Swelling: The Mechanisms
Recent scientific research has provided compelling evidence for witch hazel's anti-inflammatory and anti-swelling properties. A 2024 study published in the National Institutes of Health demonstrated that witch hazel formula exhibits potent anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties while enhancing skin barrier function . Let's explore the specific mechanisms:
Mechanism 1: Vasoconstriction Witch hazel causes temporary constriction of blood vessels in the affected area. This reduces blood flow to inflamed tissues, which decreases fluid accumulation and visible swelling. The astringent tannins are primarily responsible for this effect.
Mechanism 2: Reduced Capillary Permeability Inflammation often causes blood vessels to become "leaky," allowing fluid to escape into surrounding tissues and cause swelling. Witch hazel strengthens capillary walls and reduces this permeability, preventing excessive fluid accumulation.
Mechanism 3: Anti-Inflammatory Pathway Inhibition Research indicates that witch hazel compounds can inhibit pro-inflammatory mediators such as cytokines and prostaglandins. By reducing these inflammatory signals, witch hazel addresses swelling at its source .
Mechanism 4: Antioxidant Protection Oxidative stress contributes to inflammation and tissue damage. Witch hazel's antioxidant compounds neutralize free radicals, protecting cells from damage and reducing the inflammatory cascade that leads to swelling.
Mechanism 5: Protein Binding The tannins in witch hazel bind to proteins in damaged or inflamed tissue, creating a protective layer that shields the area from further irritation while promoting healing.
Clinical Evidence: What Research Says About Witch Hazel and Swelling
Recent Scientific Studies
Multiple peer-reviewed studies have investigated witch hazel's effectiveness in reducing swelling and inflammation:
Study 1: Novel Witch Hazel Formula (2024) A groundbreaking 2024 study investigated the impact of a novel witch hazel formula on skin health. The findings demonstrated that witch hazel exhibits potent anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties while enhancing skin barrier function. This research provides strong scientific support for witch hazel's ability to reduce inflammation and associated swelling .
Study 2: Skin Microbiota and Anti-Inflammatory Properties Research examining witch hazel's chemical composition and its effects on skin microbiota confirmed that the astringent property of witch hazel has been recognized for its ability to reduce inflammation and swelling. This traditional use has been validated through modern scientific analysis .
Study 3: Hemorrhoidal Disease Management Several clinical studies and guidelines have recognized the use of witch hazel for symptom relief in hemorrhoidal disease, a condition characterized by significant swelling and inflammation. These studies demonstrate witch hazel's practical effectiveness in reducing swelling in real-world clinical applications .
Study 4: Topical Anti-Inflammatory Effects Multiple studies have shown that witch hazel extract can effectively reduce inflammation associated with various skin conditions including acne, eczema, and other inflammatory dermatological issues. The consistent anti-inflammatory effects across different conditions support witch hazel's general swelling-reduction properties .
Clinical Applications
Healthcare providers and researchers have documented witch hazel's effectiveness for swelling in various contexts:
* Minor skin injuries and bruises
* Insect bites and stings
* Hemorrhoids and anal swelling
* Post-procedure inflammation
* Varicose vein-related swelling
* Inflammatory skin conditions
Practical Applications: How to Use Witch Hazel Extract Powder for Swelling
Topical Applications
1. Witch Hazel Compress
For localized swelling from injuries, insect bites, or minor inflammation:
Ingredients:
1-2 teaspoons witch hazel powder
1 cup warm (not hot) water
Clean cloth or gauze
Instructions:
Dissolve witch hazel powder in warm water
Soak a clean cloth in the solution
Wring out excess liquid
Apply to the swollen area for 10-15 minutes
Repeat 2-3 times daily as needed
2. Witch Hazel Paste
For targeted application on specific swollen areas:
Ingredients:
1 teaspoon witch hazel powder
Few drops of water or aloe vera gel
Optional: 1/4 teaspoon bentonite clay for enhanced drawing effect
Instructions:
Mix witch hazel powder with liquid to form a paste
Apply directly to swollen area
Leave on for 15-20 minutes
Rinse with cool water
Apply 1-2 times daily
3. Witch Hazel Spray
For larger areas or hard-to-reach swelling:
Ingredients:
2 tablespoons Witch Hazel Extract Powder
1 cup distilled water
Optional: 2-3 drops lavender essential oil
Instructions:
Steep witch hazel powder in hot water for 30 minutes
Strain thoroughly through fine mesh or coffee filter
Add to spray bottle
Store in refrigerator for up to one week
Spray on affected areas as needed
Internal Use Considerations
While witch hazel is primarily used topically, Witch Hazel Extract Powder can be incorporated into dietary supplements. However, internal use should be approached with caution:
Important Notes:
* Only use witch hazel products specifically formulated for internal use
* Follow manufacturer dosage recommendations carefully
* Consult healthcare providers before internal use
* Internal use is less common than topical application
* Some compounds may be more effective when applied directly to affected areas
Combination Therapies
Witch hazel powder works synergistically with other natural anti-inflammatory ingredients:
Effective Combinations:
For Skin Swelling:
* Witch hazel + Aloe vera
* Witch hazel + Chamomile
* Witch hazel + Green tea extract
For Joint and Muscle Swelling:
* Witch hazel + Arnica
* Witch hazel + Turmeric
* Witch hazel + Ginger extract
For Vascular Swelling:
* Witch hazel + Horse chestnut
* Witch hazel + Butcher's broom
* Witch hazel + Grape seed extract
Specific Conditions: When Witch Hazel Helps Reduce Swelling
1. Hemorrhoids
Hemorrhoids represent one of the most well-documented uses of witch hazel for swelling reduction. Clinical guidelines have recognized witch hazel for symptom relief in hemorrhoidal disease, which is characterized by inflamed and swollen blood vessels in the rectal area .
How It Helps:
* Reduces swelling of hemorrhoidal tissue
* Provides temporary relief from itching and discomfort
* Tightens tissue through astringent action
* Reduces bleeding from inflamed vessels
Application: Apply witch hazel solution or cream to the affected area after bowel movements and before bed. Witch hazel pads may help reduce itching, mild pain, and inflammation, especially for external hemorrhoids .
2. Minor Skin Injuries and Bruises
Bruising occurs when blood vessels break and leak into surrounding tissue, causing visible swelling and discoloration.
How Witch Hazel Helps:
* Constricts blood vessels to reduce further bleeding
* Decreases fluid accumulation in tissues
* Speeds healing through anti-inflammatory action
* Reduces pain associated with swelling
Application: Apply witch hazel compress or spray to bruised areas 3-4 times daily until swelling subsides.
3. Insect Bites and Stings
Insect bites trigger inflammatory responses that cause localized swelling, redness, and itching.
How Witch Hazel Helps:
* Reduces histamine-driven inflammation
* Soothes itching that can worsen swelling
* Provides cooling sensation for comfort
* Prevents secondary infection through mild antimicrobial properties
Application: Apply witch hazel solution immediately after bite and continue 2-3 times daily until symptoms resolve.
4. Puffy Eyes and Under-Eye Swelling
Eye puffiness results from fluid retention, lack of sleep, allergies, or aging.
How Witch Hazel Helps:
* Tightens skin around eyes
* Reduces fluid accumulation
* Constricts blood vessels to minimize puffiness
* Provides antioxidant protection to delicate eye area
Application: Soak cotton pads in diluted witch hazel solution and place over closed eyes for 10 minutes. Use daily or as needed.
5. Varicose Veins and Leg Swelling
Varicose veins occur when valves in leg veins weaken, causing blood pooling and swelling.
How Witch Hazel Helps:
* Strengthens vein walls
* Improves vascular tone
* Reduces visible swelling in legs
* Provides relief from heaviness and discomfort
Application: Apply witch hazel gel or cream to affected areas twice daily, massaging gently upward toward the heart.
6. Post-Surgical and Post-Procedure Swelling
Minor cosmetic procedures and surgeries often result in temporary swelling.
How Witch Hazel Helps:
* Reduces post-procedure inflammation
* Minimizes bruising
* Supports faster healing
* Provides gentle, non-irritating care for sensitive post-procedure skin
Application: Follow healthcare provider recommendations. Generally, witch hazel can be applied once the skin has closed and initial healing has begun.
7. Inflammatory Skin Conditions
Conditions like eczema, psoriasis, and dermatitis involve chronic inflammation and swelling. Studies have shown that witch hazel extract can effectively reduce inflammation associated with acne, eczema, and other skin conditions .
How Witch Hazel Helps:
* Reduces acute flare-up inflammation
* Soothes irritated skin
* Strengthens skin barrier function
* Provides antioxidant protection against environmental triggers
Application: Apply witch hazel solution or cream to affected areas 1-2 times daily or as directed by dermatologist.
Witch Hazel Powder: Quality Considerations for Suppliers and Consumers
What Makes High-Quality Witch Hazel Extract Powder?
As a dietary supplement ingredient supplier, understanding quality markers is essential:
1. Source Material
Hamamelis virginiana (American witch hazel) is the preferred species
Bark and leaves contain the highest concentrations of active compounds
Sustainably harvested material ensures consistent quality
2. Extraction Method
Water or alcohol extraction preserves beneficial tannins
Standardized extracts ensure consistent potency
Proper drying techniques maintain compound integrity
3. Tannin Content
Quality witch hazel powder should contain 8-12% tannins
Higher tannin content correlates with stronger astringent effects
Third-party testing verifies tannin levels
4. Purity Standards
No heavy metal contamination
Free from pesticides and herbicides
No artificial additives or fillers
Microbial testing ensures safety
5. Particle Size
Fine, uniform powder ensures better dissolution
Appropriate particle size for intended application
Consistent texture indicates quality processing
Certifications and Testing
Reputable suppliers should provide:
* Certificate of Analysis (COA) for each batch
* Third-party laboratory testing results
* GMP (Good Manufacturing Practice) certification
* Organic certification (when applicable)
* Heavy metal testing
* Microbial contamination testing
* Identity verification through HPLC or similar methods
Safety, Side Effects, and Precautions
General Safety Profile
Witch hazel is generally well-tolerated when used appropriately. Witch hazel is generally well-recognized for topical use with minimal side effects when used as directed .
Safety Highlights:
* Centuries of traditional use
* Recognized as safe by regulatory authorities
* Minimal side effects when used topically
* Low risk of allergic reactions
Potential Side Effects
While rare, some individuals may experience:
Topical Use:
* Mild skin irritation or dryness
* Allergic contact dermatitis (very rare)
* Temporary stinging on broken skin
* Over-drying with excessive use
Internal Use:
* Stomach upset or nausea
* Liver concerns with excessive internal use
* Interaction with certain medications
Who Should Avoid Witch Hazel?
Exercise Caution If You:
Have known allergies to witch hazel or related plants
Have very sensitive or damaged skin
Are pregnant or breastfeeding (consult healthcare provider)
Have liver conditions (for internal use)
Are taking blood thinners or anticoagulants
Best Practices for Safe Use
1. Patch Test First Before applying witch hazel to large areas, test on a small skin patch and wait 24 hours to check for reactions.
2. Dilute Appropriately Witch hazel powder should be properly diluted for topical use. Concentrated applications may cause excessive drying.
3. Avoid Broken Skin While witch hazel can be used on minor cuts, avoid applying to deep wounds or severely damaged skin without medical guidance.
4. Don't Overuse More is not better. Excessive use can disrupt skin's natural moisture balance.
5. Store Properly Keep witch hazel powder in a cool, dry place away from direct sunlight to maintain potency.
6. Check Expiration Dates Use witch hazel products within their recommended timeframe for optimal effectiveness.
Witch Hazel Extract Powder in Commercial Formulations
Product Development Opportunities
For manufacturers and formulators, witch hazel powder offers versatile applications:
Skincare Products:
* Anti-aging serums and creams
* Acne treatment formulations
* Toners and astringents
* After-sun care products
* Eye creams and treatments
* Facial masks and treatments
Therapeutic Products:
* Hemorrhoid relief preparations
* First aid ointments and sprays
* Anti-inflammatory creams
* Wound care products
* Sports recovery formulations
Dietary Supplements:
* Vascular health supplements
* Anti-inflammatory support formulas
* Antioxidant blends
* Digestive health products
Formulation Considerations
Stability: Witch Hazel Extract Powder is more stable than liquid extracts, making it ideal for products with longer shelf lives.
Solubility: Water-soluble compounds make witch hazel easy to incorporate into aqueous formulations.
Compatibility: Witch hazel works well with most common cosmetic and supplement ingredients.
Dosage: Typical concentrations range from 2-10% in topical products, depending on desired effect.
pH Considerations: Witch hazel is slightly acidic, which can benefit skin pH balance but may require buffering in some formulations.
Comparing Witch Hazel to Other Anti-Swelling Remedies
Natural Alternatives
Arnica:
Excellent for bruising and trauma-related swelling
More targeted for musculoskeletal injuries
Witch hazel offers broader applications
Aloe Vera:
Superior for burn-related swelling
More moisturizing than witch hazel
Less astringent action
Witch hazel provides stronger anti-inflammatory effects
Green Tea:
Powerful antioxidant properties
Good for inflammatory skin conditions
Less astringent than witch hazel
Can be combined for enhanced benefits
Calendula:
Excellent wound healing properties
Gentler than witch hazel
Better for very sensitive skin
Witch hazel works faster for acute swelling
Conventional Treatments
Hydrocortisone Cream:
Stronger anti-inflammatory effect
Potential side effects with prolonged use
Witch hazel offers gentler, natural alternative
Can be used more frequently without concerns
Ice/Cold Therapy:
Immediate effect on acute swelling
Temporary relief
Witch hazel provides longer-lasting benefits
Can be combined with cold therapy
NSAIDs (Ibuprofen, etc.):
Systemic anti-inflammatory effect
Effective for internal swelling
Potential gastrointestinal side effects
Witch hazel works topically without systemic effects
Maximizing Witch Hazel's Anti-Swelling Benefits
Lifestyle Factors That Enhance Effectiveness
1. Proper Hydration Adequate water intake supports the body's natural anti-inflammatory processes and helps witch hazel work more effectively.
2. Anti-Inflammatory Diet Consuming foods rich in omega-3 fatty acids, antioxidants, and anti-inflammatory compounds complements witch hazel's effects.
3. Adequate Sleep Sleep supports healing and reduces inflammatory markers, allowing witch hazel to work more efficiently.
4. Stress Management Chronic stress increases inflammation. Managing stress enhances the effectiveness of anti-inflammatory treatments.
5. Regular Movement Gentle exercise improves circulation and reduces fluid retention, supporting witch hazel's anti-swelling effects.
Timing and Application Techniques
For Best Results:
Morning Application: Apply witch hazel to reduce overnight fluid accumulation, especially for eye puffiness and leg swelling.
Post-Activity: Use after exercise or physical activity to prevent inflammation and swelling from developing.
Before Bed: Evening application allows witch hazel to work during the body's natural healing processes during sleep.
Immediate Response: Apply as soon as possible after injury, bite, or irritation for maximum swelling prevention.
Massage Technique: When appropriate, gently massage witch hazel into skin using circular motions to enhance absorption and improve circulation.
The Future of Witch Hazel Research
Emerging Studies and Applications
Scientific interest in witch hazel continues to grow, with researchers exploring:
Novel Delivery Systems:
* Nanoparticle encapsulation for enhanced penetration
* Time-release formulations for prolonged effects
* Combination therapies with other botanicals
New Therapeutic Applications:
* Inflammatory bowel conditions
* Cardiovascular health
* Neuroprotective properties
* Anti-aging interventions
Mechanism Studies:
* Detailed molecular pathways of anti-inflammatory action
* Genetic expression changes induced by witch hazel
* Microbiome interactions and effects
Standardization Efforts:
* Developing consistent quality markers
* Optimizing extraction methods
* Creating standardized dosing guidelines
Frequently Asked Questions About Witch Hazel and Swelling
Q: How quickly does witch hazel reduce swelling? A: Most people notice improvement within 15-30 minutes of application, with continued reduction over several hours. Acute swelling from minor injuries typically shows significant improvement within 24-48 hours with regular application.
Q: Can I use witch hazel on open wounds? A: Witch hazel can be used on minor cuts and scrapes, but avoid applying to deep wounds or severely damaged skin. Consult healthcare providers for serious injuries.
Q: Is witch hazel powder as effective as liquid witch hazel? A: When properly prepared, witch hazel powder is equally effective as liquid preparations. The powder form offers advantages in stability, concentration, and versatility.
Q: How often can I apply witch hazel for swelling? A: For most applications, 2-4 times daily is appropriate. Witch hazel is gentle enough for frequent use, but avoid over-application that could dry skin excessively.
Q: Can witch hazel help with chronic swelling conditions? A: Witch hazel can provide symptomatic relief for chronic inflammatory conditions, but it works best as part of a comprehensive treatment plan. Consult healthcare providers for chronic conditions.
Q: Does witch hazel interact with medications? A: Topical witch hazel has minimal drug interactions. However, if using internally or if you take blood thinners, consult your healthcare provider.
Q: Is witch hazel safe during pregnancy? A: Topical use is generally considered safe during pregnancy, particularly for hemorrhoids. However, always consult your healthcare provider before using any new products during pregnancy.
Q: Can children use witch hazel for swelling? A: Witch hazel is generally safe for children when used topically and properly diluted. Start with lower concentrations and monitor for any adverse reactions.
Q: What's the difference between witch hazel for swelling vs. inflammation? A: Swelling is often a visible symptom of inflammation. Witch hazel addresses both by reducing inflammatory processes at the cellular level, which in turn reduces visible swelling.
Q: Can I use witch hazel with other anti-inflammatory products? A: Yes, witch hazel generally combines well with other natural anti-inflammatory ingredients. However, avoid combining with harsh chemicals or multiple strong active ingredients without guidance.
Conclusion: The Verdict on Witch Hazel for Swelling
Based on extensive scientific research, traditional use, and clinical evidence, the answer to "Will witch hazel reduce swelling?" is a resounding yes. Recent studies have demonstrated that witch hazel exhibits potent anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties, providing scientific validation for its traditional use in reducing swelling and inflammation .
Key Takeaways
1. Scientifically Validated Multiple peer-reviewed studies confirm witch hazel's anti-inflammatory and anti-swelling properties through various mechanisms including vasoconstriction, reduced capillary permeability, and inflammatory pathway inhibition.
2. Versatile Applications Witch hazel effectively reduces swelling from numerous causes including minor injuries, insect bites, hemorrhoids, inflammatory skin conditions, and post-procedure inflammation.
3. Safe and Well-Tolerated With centuries of traditional use and modern safety data, witch hazel is generally well-tolerated with minimal side effects when used appropriately.
4. Quality Matters The effectiveness of Witch Hazel Extract Powder depends on quality factors including source material, extraction method, tannin content, and purity standards.
5. Complementary Approach Witch hazel works best as part of a comprehensive approach to managing swelling, including proper hydration, anti-inflammatory lifestyle factors, and appropriate medical care when needed.
Final Recommendations
For Consumers:
* Choose high-quality witch hazel powder from reputable suppliers
* Follow proper preparation and application guidelines
* Start with a patch test to ensure compatibility
* Use consistently for best results
* Consult healthcare providers for persistent or severe swelling
For Manufacturers and Suppliers:
* Source premium Witch Hazel Extract Powder with verified tannin content
* Provide certificates of analysis and third-party testing
* Ensure GMP compliance and quality standards
* Educate customers on proper use and benefits
* Stay informed about emerging research and applications
For Healthcare Practitioners:
* Consider recommending witch hazel as a natural anti-inflammatory option
* Educate patients on appropriate use and expectations
* Monitor for any adverse reactions in sensitive individuals
* Integrate witch hazel into comprehensive treatment plans
The Bottom Line
Witch hazel, particularly in its concentrated witch hazel powder form, represents a scientifically validated, safe, and effective natural remedy for reducing swelling. Whether you're dealing with minor everyday inflammation or seeking natural alternatives to conventional treatments, witch hazel deserves consideration as part of your health and wellness toolkit.
The convergence of traditional wisdom and modern scientific research confirms what healers have known for centuries: witch hazel is a powerful ally in managing inflammation and swelling. As research continues to unveil new applications and mechanisms, witch hazel's reputation as a versatile, effective natural remedy only grows stronger.
For those in the dietary supplement and natural health industry, witch hazel powder represents an opportunity to provide customers with a high-quality, evidence-based ingredient that delivers real results. By prioritizing quality, education, and responsible sourcing, suppliers can help more people discover the remarkable anti-swelling benefits of this time-tested botanical.
References and Sources
: Investigating the Impact of a Novel Witch Hazel Formula on Skin Health - National Institutes of Health, PubMed (2024) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39575475/
: 8 Benefits and Uses of Witch Hazel - Healthline https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/witch-hazel-benefits-uses
: Investigating the Impact of a Novel Witch Hazel Formula on Skin Barrier Function and Anti-inflammatory Properties - PMC, NIH (2024) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11845955/
: Hamamelis virginiana L. in Skin Care: A Review of Its Chemical Composition and Skin Microbiota Metabolism - MDPI Molecules (2025) https://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/30/13/2744
: Natural Products in Hemorrhoid Management - PMC, National Institutes of Health (2024) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12128686/
: Does Witch Hazel Shrink Hemorrhoids Fast - Texas EVA https://texaseva.com/hemorrhoids/does-witch-hazel-shrink-hemorrhoids-fast/
: Can You Leave Witch Hazel Pads On Hemorrhoids Overnight - USA Hemorrhoid Centers https://www.usahemorrhoidcenters.com/blog/can-you-leave-witch-hazel-pads-on-hemorrhoids-overnight/
About the Author: This article was researched and written with expertise in botanical ingredients, dietary supplements, and natural health products. All information is based on current scientific research and clinical evidence, following Google's E-E-A-T principles to provide accurate, trustworthy health information.
JOYWIN founded in 2013 is an innovation-driven biotechnology company. We provide the manufacture of plant extracts, plant proteases, and customized products. If you want to know more about Witch Hazel Extract Powder or are interested in purchasing it, you can send an email to contact@joywinworld.com. We will reply to you as soon as possible after we see the message.